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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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(Only constructive or thought provoking ideas please, and remember, this is my experience and a generalisation)
In my experience of going to the gym for the last couple of years, I have noticed a trend and difference between why women and men go to the gym.
Guys go to the gym to "perfect" themselves.
They either want to improve from being normal and aim to be big, or go from being big to massive. The mentality is positive and ambitious.
However, girls go to "fix" themselves.
Many girls go to the gym because they are overweight and they have become so distressed at their image that they need to resolve the problem by simply becoming normal. Unlike guys, this attitude seems to be based around desperation.
So why don't both genders have a positive attitude to the gym and use it as a tool to perfection rather than a tool to fix themselves?
Or is this just something that is in the U.K and not in other countries? | |
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Paperboy
Posts: 45
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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It goes both ways really; there also women who go to the gym to "perfect" themselves and there are also men who go to the gym to "fix" themselves.
When the reasons are broken down to the core they are in essence the same, everybody wants to look awesomesauce and be comfortable with their body. That is at least how I think about it. | |
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Well from my experience I would say 5% of guys go to drop weight (95% go to get massive), and 5% of girls go to get in shape, with 95% going to drop weight.
However, when the girls drop the weight, they then stop going. They don't want to look their best, they just don't want to look terrible, where as the guys want to look their best. | |
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4506
Joined: 3 Apr 2009
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The people i know who use a gym, mostly university students, all do it to improve their physical condition, irrespective of gender. Practically all of them have healthy weights and bodies, they just want to get fitter.
However, as i said these people are university students who i am friends with...so i doubt they are representative of the general population. I know one guy though, who's not a university student, who goes to the gym a lot and has become a bit of a stead-head. I know he has personal issues, so i sympathise with him.
From my personal experience i have not encountered what the OP describes, but note i do not frequent gyms.
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Pulitzer Laureate
Posts: 882
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Eh, I blame the societal sexism. There, I said it, it was the elephant in the room, but I call it, it's sexism.
In today's cultural view we are told that REAL MEN are manly and muscly and are uber-strong and can benchpress hundreds of kilos. So sociey pressures men to become REAL MEN and coerces them into going to the gym and working on their six pack.
However, society also talks to women. Women are told that proper ladies are slim and toned, but not muscly. Same situation, women are coerced into becoming proper ladies and go to the gym.
Of course this isn't true for anyone, but I reckon's it's a valid reason for your observation.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 673
Joined: 13 May 2010
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Female.
I go to the gym to, as you so aptly, put it. "Perfect" myself, that, and I find it entertaining to exercise to some good music. But you're mostly correct I like to believe. Mostly.
The Cor put it pretty right I think. People want to be comfortable with their own self. =)
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 615
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
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Well shit...
Male here, I just like lifting heavy-ass weight while counting to 5. It's soothing.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 3586
Joined: 5 Oct 2010
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Holy shit mate, you better get your flame shield up :D
Seems to be a matter of interpretation, "fix" and "perfect" are the same thing just depends on how you want to see it.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Well firstly, it is not society telling people what to look like but nature (read the papers on it, quite interesting stuff). And this is why I am confused. As I mentioned, men are following their instincts which is fine/normal/healthy, yet even though women know they should be slim and toned, many fail to do this and simply give up when they are no longer humongous. I would put this down to the UK's mentality with women and exercise as it goes against natural instinct along with people being insecure and not admitting that they could do better/give up early on.
So why isn't everyone at the gym and why do so many women give up after going from fat to normal, rather than going from fat to "perfect" ? As I mention above, do you think it is insecurity and that the women are not honest with how they look?
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Woops, double post.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4561
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
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This, pretty much.
Most of the gyms I've been to have been filled with relatively physically fit people, irrespective of gender. I went to 'fix' myself, despite there not being much to 'fix'. And OP seems to be under the impression that 'perfecting' from a male perspective is 'bulking up to be able to wrestle tigers naked'. Quite a few guys I know go to the gym for cardio. Hell, I went to the gym to build my stamina as well, so my weight work was, well, light.
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Paperboy
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Oct 2010
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Female, I go to the gym to keep fit, and because I enjoy lifting weights. Helthy body, healthy mind. If I'm anxious I can work it out, maybe that's considered fixing myself, I don't know and foesn't particularly care.
Isn't getting bigger muscles fixing? I know some guys who compplain about their lack of muscles, and they talk about going to the gym to fix this problem...
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Paperboy
Posts: 45
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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Not everybody is at the gym because some people can be comfortable with their body, without it being excessively muscled. Also perfect is relative.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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True, but I'm talking about people who are unhealthy and look bad (chubby/fat etc). Again, it has been proven that you can not be truly happy with your image in that state.
In a sense, but the end result is being "perfect" (the best you can be). It is only "fixing" yourself if you are comparing yourself with someone who could not be physically better. The girls I have seen simply stop when they are no longer fat (not attractive though as they are far from toned)
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Pulitzer Laureate
Posts: 714
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Could i just point out a flaw in your logic OP that "nobody is perfect".
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Paperboy
Posts: 45
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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Simply put it is a lack of will/motivation to improve their physical state, but that is the simple explanation. Often there are underlying psychological reasons that cause people with some more flesh on their bones to not lose the weight.
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Paperboy
Posts: 45
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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Bah double post.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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My point remains though.
Why do guys go to the gym to turn themselves from normal to great, where as many women want to turn themselves from bad to normal? It just seems that guys and women have a very different concept as to why the gym is there and when/what to use it for. | |
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Pulitzer Laureate
Posts: 714
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Are you suggesting Women should "attain perfection"? because some consider "perfection" a possible option where as some don't seek such a thing since no body can ever be perfect or reach perfection.
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The Second Coming of Dave Grohl
Posts: 4755
Joined: 20 May 2009
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This exactly.
You often see girls who want massive muscles and big guys who want to shape down a bit, it really just varies. | |
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Muckraker
Posts: 311
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
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How is it sexism if it affects both sexes?
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Beat Writer
Posts: 211
Joined: 8 Dec 2010
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male . and i go to the gym because i enjoy the work out and i go for general fitness rather than bulking up.
so yea mostly light weights in large numbers for me | |
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 3919
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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They mostly come at night. Mostly.
Sorry, couldn't stop myself.
OT:
I have nothing to contribute here. I haven't been to a gym for years, so I don't remember how it used to be.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1966
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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If I go to the gym, it's for therapy. I find a running machine and good track list of music one of the most mind cleansing activities there are. I don't go there to 'perfect' or 'fix' anything frankly.
I'm of the "healthy body makes a healthy mind" mindset and even if it's only a little exercise, or a walk, it makes me feel a lot more stable while doing my mental activities, gaming, drawing, raiding in WoW and the like.
Female also, just for another case point. I'm not in dire need of any adjustment to my body I feel. I don't relate well to the majority of my gender so I suppose I see your point. I'm probably ugly as sin to those crazed perfectionists, but sod it, I'm probably alot more comfortable for it.
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On the Record
Posts: 5018
Joined: 6 Sep 2008
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Its not so much a gender thing as a self confidence thing, male or female has little bearing on it. I personally go for self improvement.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 673
Joined: 13 May 2010
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Haha, brilliant. Didn't notice I did that.
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Copy Clerk
Posts: 117
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
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Guys who need to drop weight are embarressed to be seen in a guy, it can make them feel inferior, so they try to drop the weight on their own, buy home gyms, etc.
Many of the women I know who do serious body sculping workouts go to women's only clubs because they don't like the treatment/looks they get from the men.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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I'm asking why so many women are complacent and will not try to better their appearance beyond average to poor, yet men are do not have the same mindset.
Where is your gym situated? I have never seen a girl who wants massive muscle nor a guy who wants to shape down. Just girls who want to not be fat and guys who want to be able to punch through walls.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1913
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
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I'm not trying to do either of these when I'm at the gym. You have forgotten people who just wish to keep themselves fit, or people who want to improve strength and/or stamina. Neither of which involve getting massive.
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Premium Member
Posts: 2106
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
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Well, it's likely been said already, but I've seen men who are clearly going to the gym to "fix" themselves, as you put it. While there are of course those that are there to perfect themselves (oddly, these are the guys that seems to spend more time hanging around the free weights talking than they do exercising).
At least at my gym, I notice that the majority of females I see at the gym don't appear to be in need of much fixing (ya know what ah mean (say that one in your best EMH voice :P). Best ask them yourself though, I'm no expert.
Personally, I'm mainly there to keep fit, get a bit of tone and hopefully ward off the dreaded paunch while I'm at it! :O
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 522
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Read top line :)
Also you have to remember that anyone who is fit is not going to look bad or normal either.
Maybe I just have bad luck and end up at the gym advertised by fat fighters or something.
What is the average age range of the women who are in good shape because at my gyms the overweight women/girls have mainly been 16-24 (no excuse) or 50+ (fair enough). | |
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Press Junketeer
Posts: 494
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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You assume that either one is a healthy attitude.
I think men trying to become "massive" as you put it, is supremely unhealthy. Sculpting muscle like that is often obsessive and kind of gross. Guys - being well developed is fine, but being a huge body builder doesn't do anything for most women.
Either way, the goal is to alter one's body to suit some unrealistic image. Both are unhealthy.
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Muckraker
Posts: 284
Joined: 6 Aug 2008
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The best reason I've seen for quitting a gym.
Maybe these women just stopped going because they decided they were fine with themselves and moved onto other things.
Also, this:
I often wonder about people like Madonna. She has a reputation for being super-fit, exercising for half the day and looking pretty sleek for someone her age and she certainly puts a lot of work in.
But when does she actually get to enjoy being Madonna? | |
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Press Junketeer
Posts: 469
Joined: 21 May 2010
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All you really need for a full workout would be a barbell with about 50kg of weights, a gi or really sturdy piece of cloth, a good pair of running shoes and a place to run. Maybe a bike if you prefer cycling to jogging. I sorted all my workout needs for life at a cost of around £150, and £60 of that was the shoes. As such, I tend to think that people go to the gym to be seen working out. There's no need for the crazy membership fees most gyms charge, but that's hardly the point is it. The gym is a social club. The aim is to do something with ambient sociability, not necessarily to get fit.
There's also another reason both men and women go to the gym, and that's if they're training for sport. The gym in this case is a way to achieve a goal, in this case being better at your sport of choice.
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Copy Clerk
Posts: 84
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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I would disagree. I go to the gym to, as you say, "fix" myself. When I hit around 210lbs, I start hitting the gym and jogging until I get down to 180 or so. Then I quit going and a couple of years later am back heading back down to 180.
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Muckraker
Posts: 293
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
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Actually i know a girl who goes to the gym to both keep fit and screw her personal trainer.
Sounds like a plot from some tv show, the personal trainers a girl too! No really, shes the only person who goes to that gym for none fitness reasons, its hilarious to our close friends =P
Oh and to troll the guys, but thats just cause she could probably kick their asses, go awesome lass! :D
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4656
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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Because some women find perfect to be going from overweight to being healthy. If I recall correctly it is highly unhealthy for a lot of women to have the six pack abs and all that. Means they have to malnourish themselves to get to it(there are exceptions of course but general populace though I heard that over 8 years ago so maybe studies have changed). Perfect has a different meaning to everyone. Maybe in their eyes they see themselves as perfect and don't feel the need to do more than that. Maybe they have some issue in their life that causes them not to be able to go any more. There are a million and one reasons for the why(for women and men since it goes both ways). Personally as a female, I don't go to the gym but that's because all the women out here who go to the gym are uberly skinny and complain they are fat and blah blah blah so me being bigger than them(i'm still slim mind you just not like them)it gives me a complex and I lose my desire to work out. I go running with friends and exercise at home instead. More comfortable that way.
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On the Record
Posts: 6298
Joined: 21 May 2009
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I think it's a matter of what is normally considered "best" for each gender. The ripped look is considered attractive on guys, whereas muscular girls (I mean bulging biceps muscular, not just strong) isn't as popular.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1509
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
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I would have gone for option b: Its more acceptable for a man to be fat than a woman. So most fat men would accept their bodies, not get in shape, and have everyone be cool with it. But a woman would have a stigma against her if she was fat. So she works out. So at the gym, youre more likely to see fat women trying to fix themselves, and men trying to perfect themselves. Because the perfecters of both genders are already there, but only a large amount of fat women and a far smaller amount of fat men.
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Pulitzer Laureate
Posts: 714
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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because some women happen to be fine with the way they look fat or not there are a majority of women that are fine with being fat or skinny either way not having the desire to attain the perfect body is natural more than instinct because that means my instincts are totally wrong because i don't desire muscles at all and i'm a guy i like to have the slim average appearance and not look like Arnold because i sometimes see that as macho and over the top silly rather than a form of perfection.
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On the Record
Posts: 5593
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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you have women who go to your gyms? =\
ugh it's kind of been a bit of a downer, i've gone to 4-5 different gyms in the past 4-5 years, and all of them have a super ridiculous minority of women, and even then the women that go there are usually (no offense, i do have plenty of fat friends) frickin HUGE (300 pound huge) so it's definitely not attractively fun at all going to the gym..
now back on topic : When i go, i usually go to tone up the body a bit, give myself a nice healthy workout for the day (i feel lethargic if i don't do something physically active each day) and maybe pick up a few muscle lbs, but nothing much (i've gained probably 5 lbs of muscle since july, i'm pretty happy with where i'm at now, but i wouldn't complain if i gained another 5 lbs)
but i will say that 99% of women that i do see at gyms, are always on the aerobics machine or treadmill, and that's it.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 523
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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It has been proven that looking better makes you feel better. Yes, it is unhealthy if it becomes obsessive, but that is not what I'm aiming at as I want to know why women give up so easily and have no ambition.
Again, proven that fat is known to not be attractive and if you know that, you are not happy. I really think the media has warped peoples view on what is natural (and proven) and what is liberal bullshit.
Ok - why do you not aim to get into shape? Why do you just use it as a weight control method and nothing more?
Nope, not true and proven sorry. Those women know that they will look bad/average.
It is not unhealthy for women to have a six-pack. It may not be attractive, but it is not unhealthy - just look at athletes. Also it has been proven that perfect is the same for everyone and everyone knows where they stand in comparison to people. Natures a bitch ain't it.
Personally for the U.K, I think it is denial combined with no confidence and terrible knowledge of fitness with the belief that they can not look good no matter what.
Oh, don't get me wrong, all my gyms are about 80% guys but I have given up on seeing any change a loooong time ago. I do think though the reason behind this is partially due to my point and womens (in general) crap attitude towards exercise and the gym.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4656
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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Once again, perfect is not the same for everyone. The ideal that society in general has as far as attractiveness and what perfect is for me is disgusting. I like myself (for the most part there's a few things I'm working on like better control of my asthma when running and coping with a bad knee and ankle on my right leg) and think I am perfect as I am. Yeah I'd love to have my six pack back. It looked great on me. I don't have the time to dedicate to get it back and keep it. I have at the moment 2 days a week off work that I could work on that but my work days(well nights) I can't. I need my sleep since it throws a wrench in my sleeping patterns when I work. Come the end of the month I will have two weeks where I have 1 or 2 days off in that period. That's working every night(on my feet for 8 hours running and walking) and getting home about 3 or 4 in the morning and then having to go back and leave at 4 pm. So, my calves and thighs look amazing at the moment. Upper body not so great but its me and I am happy with it. So, perfect is NOT the same for everyone. Also I couldn't care less where I stand with others physically. I care more for my intellect than my looks. And the US has the same problem luv. People who think that everyone should look to this ideal perfection need to get a new outlook on life. Maybe not everyone agrees. Maybe some of us don't like that standard and have a different viewpoint of perfection. Live and let live. If someone wants to look like that more power to them. If they don't then its that simple. They don't.
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Press Junketeer
Posts: 494
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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Yes, looking better makes you feel better. But here's my point. This is a healthy looking man who's been to the gym:
He is very, very hot. ^^ That right there is a fine goal to have.
This is not:
This is hideous. This does not look good, and it does not look healthy. And this is what I feel like men at the gym want to look like. Men will be at Old Spice Guy level, but they want to get to this level, and that's just wrong. Disgusting and wrong.
And it is exactly the same as a woman exercising for half a day, every day, to be thin. And equally awful.
I'm not anti-being in shape. I own an exercise bike because I'm too cheap to go to the gym, and because I can play video games while I use the exercise bike (so my game time becomes my workout time). But there's a point where you need to stop. Men are just as bad as women about going WAY too far past that point.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 523
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Wrong. Everyone has the same generalisation on what looks good. This has been proven and published. This point can not be debated unless you have researched it. People also know exactly how good or bad they look compared to everyone else however emotional insecurities are what change how honest people are. Again, proven and published - not up for debate.
Actually many guys at the gym will stop at Old Spice guy simply because of how hard it is to get larger than that. To do so requires huge amount of exercise, controlled diet, and maybe drugs.
However, my point is why do girls not have the same ambition? They don't even want to get to the female equivalent of the 1st guy, they just want to be normal. I find that lack of ambition and level of complacency alarming. | |
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Muckraker
Posts: 284
Joined: 6 Aug 2008
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I'd argue that attractiveness is subjective, subjective things cannot be proven to be true or false and that becoming attractive is not necessarily the primary goal of those using a gym but at this point, I'm beginning to think you're trolling.
You asked
and people have given you reasons but rather than accepting that these might be a valid answer, you just seem to be using the thread to attack people's attitudes towards fitness.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4656
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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No they don't. Prove to me with a study that has surveyed EVERYONE on the planet that proves this and I'll believe you. Not just a select group of people representing everyone else. This goes for research as well. Matters of opinion. Especially since I KNOW that study/research has not been done with the entire planet. It may have been done with a percentage of the population but that percentage does NOT represent everyone.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1929
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
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Are you seriously arguing with women who are flat-out telling you what they (and other women they know) personally like, simply because you are more attracted to muscular women than merely "fit" ones?
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 523
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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I'm rejecting your idea because it has been proven to be wrong in a number of papers. Unless you have papers to your name in this field, you can not debate the point, merely argue with fact which is absurd.
Do you need to drop an apple in ever location on Earth to know gravity exists? No.
So again, unless you have a PhD to your name, you can't argue with published papers because many people more qualified and informed than you will ever be think that those findings were substantial enough to make a scientific impact (not an opinion as you said). This is why I made this thread, to find out why many women go against natural instincts.
Erm, what? At what point did I say I prefer muscular women? I just want to know why women quit the gym after going from fat to mildly tubby and don't ever become normal eg flat stomach.
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Muckraker
Posts: 279
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
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I thought it was more common practice to just buy a membership and then never actually go :P
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Beat Writer
Posts: 208
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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OP, I'm guessing you go to "perfect" yourself, and you have a female friend who goes to "fix" yourself. How many people at your gym do you actually talk to? You're skewing the statistics based on your experience.
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Press Junketeer
Posts: 494
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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...? What are you talking about?
Oh. Wait. I get it now.
So, you think that what women go to the gym for is normal? Ha... ha, no.
What you're considering "normal" is actually as difficult to get and maintain as Old Spice Guy.
Most women want to get to, say... Summer Glau level.
Summer Glau is a professional ballerina (or she was before she turned actress). That is INSANELY in shape. That is a more difficult goal than Old Spice Guy. It is nearly impossible to get.
If you think that we're going for normal, then you have an awful (if Hollywood inspired) image of what "normal" for a woman is.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4656
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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Fine. Cite your damn sources then.
So those of us who instinctively do not wish to look as you think we instinctively SHOULD look are then going against nature? hmm. And with or without a PhD yes, you can argue against published papers. They CAN be proven wrong. Cite your sources that prove that EVERYONE has the same ideal of perfection. This is merely a debate between what YOU think the standard of beauty and attractiveness SHOULD be against what it actually is to others. Anyone who disagrees you argue with because of your "unless you have a PhD or a published paper you're opinion doesn't matter" state of mind. And YES THAT is EXACTLY how you come across.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 523
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Urgh, please be more careful in reading what I post.
The vast majority (95%) of girls I see DO NOT TRY to get to "Summer Glau level". They get to tubby Britney Spears (from being fat) and stop and quit the gym.
As for women being what should be normal aka flat stomach, no wobbly bits and mild toning, that is easy and should be thought as normal because all it takes is a healthy diet and regular exercise. That's it. Not a high protein, low carb etc hyper controlled diet with rigorous exercise routines which you need to get to being well built for a guy, just common sense. The difference with S.G is that she will be flexible as hell with very strong legs - that's the only difference between normal and her (and yes, I know as my friends sister is a professional Ballerina). Insanely in shape is someone like Jamie Eason as she has the controlled diet etc.
I think you have shown that many people seem to be ill informed on how they cna look at what it takes. If your opinion is common amongst women then it explains a lot as women would give up as they think the next stage is too hard when it really is not.
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1731
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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I go to the gym to keep myself in shape. I don't aim for the "perfect" body i'm happy with the build I have.
I do, however, want to keep that build and not become a blubbery mass of flesh so I go to the gym and I train .... a lot.
And I train at home ... oh joyful multigym.
MY wife goes to keep fit. She has nothing to "fix" and neither do the other women at the gym I go to.
They like to stay in shape that is all.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 523
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Just browse google scholar, that's how I found the sources and seeing that it's late, I will do them tomorrow if you are unable to do so.
As for not wanting to look how you should, that is all down to mental health and where you place yourself in the natural chain of attractiveness(which yes, has been proven to exist).
And no, to argue against a paper without a PhD makes you ignorant/arrogant/absurd/prodigy, and somehow I doubt you are the latter. If you truly think that you can argue against world leading experts when you know so little shows that no matter what proof I show, it would be meaningless as your mindset means you would reject fact in favour of fiction. Sadly, that sort of attitude is what kept the world in the Dark Ages and as my first line in the OP says, please refrain from posting that. | |
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Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4657
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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Yes, because EVERYTHING you read on the internet is true and has NEVER been found to be fabricated. And you have no clue how much or how little I know. Don't you dare try and guess at my intelligence without knowing anything about me. Basically however, what you've said is that anyone who disagrees with YOUR opinion of attractiveness and a few "professionals" who do research on a select group of people that supposedly represents the entire world but in reality doesn't is wrong and should change their viewpoints so that we all have the same opinions. I reject people's opinions published that people take as facts based on a small group of people who are probably superficial as hell anyway or highly insecure about themselves to be the opinion of the entire populace of the world as far as beauty/attractiveness goes. There is NO set standard of it. And anyone who thinks there is is being absurd especially when they discredit anyone who has a differing opinion merely because they don't have a PhD to their name or a published paper, which by the way how would you know unless they told you and what if they didn't want to tell you they did?
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Copy Clerk
Posts: 118
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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I'm curious to know what you're after. Obviously the answer to this question but then you just went ahead and gave us the answers as seen below.
So you're looking for other peoples opinions? Mostly they seem to have a problem with the original premise and that your argument is based on, what you declared yourself to be, your own experience and a generalisation. This precludes other peoples experiences wavering you from your point as demonstrated:
And yet you even carry on when 31 posts into a 58 post thread you realise (perhaps sarcastically) that your experience isn't the standard for the entire country:
So what are you after? A high-minded discussion among forward-thinking lay people about the ideal aesthetics of the human form?
Ah. I assume you weren't really expecting academics, let alone physiotherapy/anatomy academics, on the off-topic forum of the escapist so any discussion of the literature is also out of the question, as is unqualified discussion of the points at hand. (As a side-note, you can understand a field of study and discuss it and have a worthy opinion about it without being published.)
Also I believe that second post acts against Rule 1:
As does your unfortunately revealing post about how you see the world
As do most of the rest of your posts. Your concept of constructive input and thought-provoking ideas, let alone threads, seems to be somewhat unusual.
In conclusion, I look forward to posting my ideas about the subject when I know what it is you want to me to say.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 506
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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Your numbers are bizarre then. Apparently you live...
**notes thread title**
Ah. UK.
I can only speak for Americans. Specifically New Yorkers. The women I know who go to the gym are trying to be Super Models - and the ones who work at it 3-5 hours a day come close.
They try hard NOT to build ANY muscle, but only burn fat, because they don't want muscle (apparently guys think muscle on girls is ugly? I've never thought so - think mildly toned women are very attractive). But they still work hard on burning calories and staying as thin as possible.
Perhaps it is different in the UK. I wouldn't know. Somehow I doubt all UK women are happy being fat.
I assume your sample size is the Gym you go to? Are you in a major city, or a smaller town? That can have a huge impact on how people treat body image.
Your generalizations that 95% of women do this is NOT AT ALL my experience. Hence why, even when I read you post, it made no sense because what you were saying sounded entirely unlike what I've experienced.
Perhaps this is an issue with your gym? No idea why it would happen like that... I'm just saying, I have not seen the data you speak of.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 506
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one having a difficult conversation with the OP. This whole thread is starting to get a bit frustrating.
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Infamous Scribbler
Posts: 526
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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I'm simply curious if anyone else has seen the same, if anyone knows of people with that attitude or different, and any ideas about the topic. It is simply a hypothesis leading to a bigger picture about girls in the North of England.
Anyway, are you going to contribute anything to the thread?
Very interesting, thanks.
I do believe then that women in the UK (mainly the North) have a strange and abnormal attitude towards the gym which is a result of a broken and unhealthy idea about body image and fitness. Maybe many women in the UK just do not know what a healthy women looks like and what it takes to reach that aka it's a cultural problem rather than gender issue |
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Edit: Ok now I am officially pissed at this guy. I woke up to find this in my message box:
Seeing that you're off topic and clearly have no idea what a paper is, what is contained in one, and have never read one, you really should have not bothered posting and should not continue to.
4 comments:
...waaaaaaa?
I...he...but...oh god I was hoping those people were gone.
yeah I wish. Then I wake up today and he insults my damn intelligence
...?! On behalf of the rest of Britain, I apologise for this dickwad...
awww thanks hun....you know its a two part because blogger wouldn't let me update the rest in this one...might turn into 3.....we shall see
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